August 21, 2014

Assignments given to me in the comments.

1. "The hula hoop thing was github. Google github and hula hoop. It was a story with lots of hidden stuff, office romance, etc., so don't take any one article as definitive. I don't trust my memory enough to tell the tale, but my take away was that hiring the lady in question was a mistake. I'll add that the two women who did the hula hoops, did them at a company party and were not the ones who complained. The lady who complained cited it as a horrible example of the sexist atmosphere at the company when she quit."

2. "Go ahead and elaborate on your (brief!) 12:24 PM statement, and describe some scenarios and how you think they might play out under various levels of 'character' or the lack thereof." And, 2 days later after no response from me: "Yeah... so I guess when a student tries to give the professor an assignment, it doesn't usually work?"

Answers:

1. Okay, I read "Julie Ann Horvath Describes Sexism And Intimidation Behind Her GitHub Exit." This is a long, complicated story, but it does have an incident with 2 women hula hooping in the office. Horvath professes to "adore" the women and to have no problem with their hula hooping (to music) in the office, but she had a big problem with the men looking at them. It reminded her of "a strip club." When she confronted her male coworkers, "they didn’t see a problem with it." I presume that means she expected them to accept the characterization of the men as looking like men in a strip club and to make the distinction that she did, absolving the women from any role in creating this strip-club-like atmosphere and blaming only the men. The men failed to meet her expectations, and she decided to quit. She said she "felt unsafe." So, how does this relate to my post yesterday saying "And for all I know there really were 2 ladies with hula hoops who took offense when the men in the office seemed to enjoy their girlish fun in a way that wasn't the precise form of appreciation they sought. How terrible is it to want to secretly say to them: Lighten up?"? Clearly, I mistakenly thought the hula hooping women complained that their attention-getting behavior was getting attention, but it was an on-looking woman who was offended by what felt like a sexual atmosphere in the workplace.

2. If you, the commenter, want me, the blogger, to answer a question, show that you've understood my (brief!) response to the issue you'd already raised, and don't give me a complicated assignment that demands that I follow a (long!!) format and that seems to flag your plan to reject whatever I come up with. And pay attention to resonance with upthread comments. In this case you tried to get me to write "scenarios" and, upthread, someone else, responding to a concrete example I'd written, said: "Can you continue your description of that scenario in a little more detail? It's starting to turn me on. Now I know why women read those bodice-rippers."

21 comments:

T J Sawyer said...

I'm guessing that when the O.E.D. finally gets around to discussing the usage of "upthread" as a transitive verb, it will cite this post as an early use. Let's hope that it is online by then.

YoungHegelian said...

I presume that means she expected them to accept the characterization of the men as looking like men in a strip club and to make the distinction that she did, absolving the women from any role in creating this strip-club-like atmosphere and blaming only the men.

The tell in these sort of situations is if the guys stuffed dollar bills in the ladies' garters or not.

Ann Althouse said...

@T J Sawyer

I added commas so it wouldn't seem to be a verb. I meant it as a prepositional adverb, like "above."

DKWalser said...

I have a really difficult time understanding the hula hoop situation. I'm a fairly average man, but I wouldn't find two women hula hooping in the office sexy. (This presumes that they're wearing office attire and not something better suited for the beach or bedroom.) I would find their hula hooping fun and energizing. In my office, we had a nerf basketball set. To work off stress, some of the staff would play a quick game of horse. I didn't find that display sexy, either -- even when some of the women joined in the game.

Unknown said...

No one actually knows how the men found it. We only know how Julie Horvath found the men found it.

But I'm a man, and I think the argument, I am a man, and I would find X to be Y, or I am a man, and I would not find X to be Y, to be arrogant, condescending, and egotistical.

Unknown said...

(not sure why I'm appearing as unknown, google and google+ both know me, but blogger doesn't seem to. If it's okay though, I will stay unknown -- I work in Silicon Valley, and I do fear the wrath of the social justice league there.)

HoodlumDoodlum said...

DKWalser: they were subject to the male gaze and it sounds like another woman was offened on their behalf.
The tell for me is her claim to have felt "unsafe." If this incident is the worst of what made her feel unsafe (and I admit I haven't read the article) then why would any rataional adult trust her judgement. Unsafe?! Well, see, but you can't question her feelings, and looking at people (women!) who are acting in a way designed to attract attention-yeah, that's a form of violence, naturally, and if you react to her feelings with disbelief then you're basically abusing her all over again.
Once again, debasing the currency. There are women who are abused and subject to violence and threats of violence, and everyone opposes those things and wants to help and protect such women. Taking advantage of those feelings by claiming to feel unsafe or be subject to an imagined hypothetical form of violence (or micro-aggressions, etc) muddies the water regarding ACTUAL abuse or violence and ultimately makes things worse for actual victims. This is the langauage they (women like the author) speak now, though, and it seems like few people even question it.

Ann Althouse said...

"I have a really difficult time understanding the hula hoop situation. I'm a fairly average man, but I wouldn't find two women hula hooping in the office sexy."

"Here's a video demonstrating sexy hula hooping.

Ann Althouse said...

I think the whole point of the hula hoop, even when the female isn't trying to be sexy, is that it forces a lot of hip action that resembles intentional sexiness.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Here's a new assignment for you. How about posting the video if the St Louis police shooting. Its pretty shocking and bad PR. The police lied about the man charging the police with knife held high.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

So, how does this relate to my post yesterday saying "And for all I know there really were 2 ladies with hula hoops who took offense when the men in the office seemed to enjoy their girlish fun in a way that wasn't the precise form of appreciation they sought. How terrible is it to want to secretly say to them: Lighten up?"? Clearly, I mistakenly thought the hula hooping women complained that their attention-getting behavior was getting attention, but it was an on-looking woman who was offended by what felt like a sexual atmosphere in the workplace.

This should not invalidate your secrete wish to tell her to "lighten up"!

tds said...

New Assignment:

As a retaliation for beheading of James Foley fly to London, UK, then execute all participants of a recent ISIS promotion event on Oxford street.

Bonus point: dispose of corpses in a pit mixed with pork.

Way better, and cheaper than indiscriminate bombing.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Tsk tsk tsk, Professor, linking to a video of an adult actress furthers the patriarchy. Or is it embracing sex work in a sex positive way? I've gotta update my guidebook.

This is a talented amateur.

Here are the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, with some clever editing.

Smilin' Jack said...

I don't trust my memory enough to tell the tale, but my take away was that hiring the lady in question was a mistake.

No shit. Guys, if you must hire women to meet your diworsity quota, hire Asian Indian women. They're smart, work hard, are grateful for the job, aren't into feminist bullshit, and many of them don't look half bad when you get their saris off.

Why anyone in this day and age would hire an American woman (much less marry one) is a mystery to me.

Anonymous said...

Ask yourself that -- if you were betamax3000 -- how would you approach your next post?

Anonymous said...

I thought that "James, the Non-Racist Slave Owner" was ripe for examination: 'moderate' slavery as metaphor for government dependency, the necessity or lack thereof of racism in treatment of others in power dynamics, among others. Maybe too meta.

Anonymous said...

I thought at least Crack would've taken a crack at it.

Saint Croix said...

Althouse with the link for the win!

I think the whole point of the hula hoop, even when the female isn't trying to be sexy, is that it forces a lot of hip action that resembles intentional sexiness.

You'd think strip club owners would have thought this up by now. No original thought in the strip club industry! It's all boobs and ass, boobs and ass. Your last innovation was adding a pole. But that was decades ago.

You should be scouting the playgrounds for fun games to play!

Hula hoop
Dodgeball
Red Rover Red Rover
Squirt guns

and this might get out of hand...

Tag

Saint Croix said...

Assignment for Althouse:

Visit a humane society and photograph some of the cuties there.

Fernandinande said...

Saint Croix said...
Visit a humane society and photograph some of the cuties there.


The dogs in Madison have a socially constructed "gender" - who knew?

Saint Croix said...

The dogs in Madison have a socially constructed "gender" - who knew?

Dogs are like babies, the cuteness is across the board. Click on the link if you doubt what I say!